For fans of Twilight, or those who can be polite about their dislike, a forum for discussion of the books and the issues related to them. Spoilers included; those who haven't finished the series and want the plot to remain a surprise should wait to read or post.
Thursday, April 9, 2009
Jacob vs. Edward
Ok -
Amongst Twilight fans there are people on Team Jacob and people on Team Edward.
Which team are you on and why?
(will wait for responses before I post my own opinion! :))
I am 100%, fully, passionately, Team Edward. To be honest, I didn't even like Jacob until the middle section of Breaking Dawn. It seemed to be so obvious that he and Bella weren't really suited to each other.
In fact, I found Jacob 1000% more abusive than Edward - both emotionally AND physically.
I really didn't like when he kissed her and she broke her hand struggling to get away - he insisted she liked it. That's when I really got turned off of him. And I felt he was kind of whiney too - complaining about how he had no choice while blowing off that neither did many vamps.
He is so selfish - completely emotionally manipulating Bella because he felt like it - because he wanted her to suffer because he was suffering. While Edward was self-sacrificing - telling her that he would if she needed him to - Jacob was completely self-centered in his "love" for Bella.
Can you tell I have strong feelings against him? haha
Jacob's stubborn insistence that Edward's selflessness was just an act just showed his immaturity. Edward stayed with Bella from New Moon onward because it was best for Bella as well as himself, and Jacob never got that.
This is why I have never bought the arguments that Edward is the abusive one. I'm not aware of any part of the series in which Edward intentionally emotionally manipulates Bella the way Jacob does.
Jacob also seems to totally discount the threat he poses toward Bella. Sam and Emily made it clear that even the most loving, attentive werewolf can lose control and seriously injure or kill whoever is close. The only thing he says is "I would never hurt her," which completely ignores the involuntary nature of his werewolf response.
Edward, on the other hand, is terrified of harming Bella. He constantly controls himself, second-guesses himself, and designs his actions to keep Bella from harm.
ShieldMaiden and I always talk about the different kinds of love Edward and Jacob have for Bella.
Edward's love is selfless. He would sacrefice anything just to make sure Bella's life is full, even when he denies her what she thinks she wants (like becoming a vampire). He wants to take care of her. He tells her to just let him know and he will leave. He tells her to be with Jacob if she wants to.
Jacob is completely the opposite. Self-obessessed and immature, he wants Bella to be with him or no one. He wants Bella to love him even if they won't be together because he wants her to suffer. He wants to punish her for loving Edward even more.
For God's sake even Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights wants Catherine (is that her name?) to be happy and would never harm her young, rich husband because he wants her happy.
100% Edward here, too- in fact, I think I spent most of New Moon in tears and emotionally distraught while Edward was gone. I am extremely interested in seeing how they handle that in the film. I learned to like Jacob more later, but I have a hard time "getting" the whole Team Jacob folks.
I'm 100% Team Edward, as well. I liked Jacob, for the most part, but I agree that he was selfish, and didn't take Bella's wants and needs into account like Edward was (and the manipulative stuff, shame on you, Jacob!)
I think, as he mentioned a few times, that he filled a gap in her life, just like Edward did. Edward is, at his core, a sensible and responsible person. Jacob, on the otherhand, is the wild, carefree friend. I think most people need to have someone they can let go with, and be irresponsible for a few hours.
It's important to keep in mind, also, that Edward is over 100 years old, and Jacob is, what? 17, I think? Given some time to grow and mature, he may have handled the whole situation a lot better.
Rainha, I see your point. But, like Robin, I read the middle section of New Moon in an impatient frenzy, waiting to see when Edward would return.
I never got the conflict she felt over Jacob. She was so deeply committed to Edward, and not only did Jacob dislike Edward and disrespect her relationship with him, Jacob had a sincere desire to kill Edward. I would have a hard time feeling loyalty to someone who wanted to kill my beloved...
But, that's what made Eclipse so wonderfully full of conflict and tension, so I'm not complaining.
"Rainha, I see your point. But, like Robin, I read the middle section of New Moon in an impatient frenzy, waiting to see when Edward would return."
Oh, me too! I always consider skipping that part, and then remember what a relief it is when he comes back :D
I think I like Jacob most pre-professing his love, and after he imprints on Renesmee. It's just when he's acting like a hormonal teenager that's a problem ;) When he actually allows himself to be a friend to Bella, instead of a suitor, I think he's good for her. His behavior with regards to Edward really is terrible, though.
I actually liked Jacob when Edward wasn't there. He took care of Bella when she needed it most - helped her come back to herself. But she still wasn't whole.
When Edward came back, she was so much better - emotionally and mentally. And Jacob threw a fit. I would have hoped he'd be happy for her that she finally was in such a good place for herself.
Well, the thing that annoyed me during that time period was that over and over Bella said that she wasn't interested in him like that and she felt really bad but she really didn't love him in that way. And he said, "yeah, that's fine, I understand, etc" but he was lying. As soon as he realized she really DIDN'T want him, he became the Jacob I really dislike
im team edward all the way. and it took me a second read of th saga to really see that jacob was actually just a love sick puppy. he seemed abusive but he just really didnt see why he was drawn to bella all the time until the when he realised that it was all because a renesme. (love renesme)
The first time i read the Saga i hated Jacob Ever since new Moon right upto when he Impritned on Renesmee. I've now read the saga 2 or 3 times and i'm on Team Jacob up untill Renesmee is born.
I used to be Team Edward all the way. But after reading the Twilight Saga so many times i felt i became to know Bella and Edward personally, and it almost felt rude to 'want' Edward. It would be like wanting your bestfriends man, And ever since that revelation I began to grow fonder and fonder of the charatchter Jacob and how much he helps bella (in New Moon) and much of a great friend he is to her. I used to relly hate Jacob, how he always tried it on with bella, Un till he imprinted on Nessie. I personally, am team Twilight, if there was one ;)
I am 100%, fully, passionately, Team Edward. To be honest, I didn't even like Jacob until the middle section of Breaking Dawn. It seemed to be so obvious that he and Bella weren't really suited to each other.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you, Deb.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, I found Jacob 1000% more abusive than Edward - both emotionally AND physically.
I really didn't like when he kissed her and she broke her hand struggling to get away - he insisted she liked it. That's when I really got turned off of him. And I felt he was kind of whiney too - complaining about how he had no choice while blowing off that neither did many vamps.
He is so selfish - completely emotionally manipulating Bella because he felt like it - because he wanted her to suffer because he was suffering. While Edward was self-sacrificing - telling her that he would if she needed him to - Jacob was completely self-centered in his "love" for Bella.
Can you tell I have strong feelings against him? haha
Jacob's stubborn insistence that Edward's selflessness was just an act just showed his immaturity. Edward stayed with Bella from New Moon onward because it was best for Bella as well as himself, and Jacob never got that.
ReplyDeleteThis is why I have never bought the arguments that Edward is the abusive one. I'm not aware of any part of the series in which Edward intentionally emotionally manipulates Bella the way Jacob does.
Edward also never physically or s*xually assaults her (unless you count the playful wrestling in his bedroom in book 1 as assault). Jacob does.
ReplyDeleteJacob also seems to totally discount the threat he poses toward Bella. Sam and Emily made it clear that even the most loving, attentive werewolf can lose control and seriously injure or kill whoever is close. The only thing he says is "I would never hurt her," which completely ignores the involuntary nature of his werewolf response.
ReplyDeleteEdward, on the other hand, is terrified of harming Bella. He constantly controls himself, second-guesses himself, and designs his actions to keep Bella from harm.
I never thought about it before, but it's true.
ReplyDeleteShieldMaiden and I always talk about the different kinds of love Edward and Jacob have for Bella.
Edward's love is selfless. He would sacrefice anything just to make sure Bella's life is full, even when he denies her what she thinks she wants (like becoming a vampire). He wants to take care of her. He tells her to just let him know and he will leave. He tells her to be with Jacob if she wants to.
Jacob is completely the opposite. Self-obessessed and immature, he wants Bella to be with him or no one. He wants Bella to love him even if they won't be together because he wants her to suffer. He wants to punish her for loving Edward even more.
For God's sake even Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights wants Catherine (is that her name?) to be happy and would never harm her young, rich husband because he wants her happy.
100% Edward here, too- in fact, I think I spent most of New Moon in tears and emotionally distraught while Edward was gone. I am extremely interested in seeing how they handle that in the film. I learned to like Jacob more later, but I have a hard time "getting" the whole Team Jacob folks.
ReplyDeleteI'm 100% Team Edward, as well. I liked Jacob, for the most part, but I agree that he was selfish, and didn't take Bella's wants and needs into account like Edward was (and the manipulative stuff, shame on you, Jacob!)
ReplyDeleteI think, as he mentioned a few times, that he filled a gap in her life, just like Edward did. Edward is, at his core, a sensible and responsible person. Jacob, on the otherhand, is the wild, carefree friend. I think most people need to have someone they can let go with, and be irresponsible for a few hours.
It's important to keep in mind, also, that Edward is over 100 years old, and Jacob is, what? 17, I think? Given some time to grow and mature, he may have handled the whole situation a lot better.
Rainha, I see your point. But, like Robin, I read the middle section of New Moon in an impatient frenzy, waiting to see when Edward would return.
ReplyDeleteI never got the conflict she felt over Jacob. She was so deeply committed to Edward, and not only did Jacob dislike Edward and disrespect her relationship with him, Jacob had a sincere desire to kill Edward. I would have a hard time feeling loyalty to someone who wanted to kill my beloved...
But, that's what made Eclipse so wonderfully full of conflict and tension, so I'm not complaining.
"Rainha, I see your point. But, like Robin, I read the middle section of New Moon in an impatient frenzy, waiting to see when Edward would return."
ReplyDeleteOh, me too! I always consider skipping that part, and then remember what a relief it is when he comes back :D
I think I like Jacob most pre-professing his love, and after he imprints on Renesmee. It's just when he's acting like a hormonal teenager that's a problem ;) When he actually allows himself to be a friend to Bella, instead of a suitor, I think he's good for her. His behavior with regards to Edward really is terrible, though.
I actually liked Jacob when Edward wasn't there. He took care of Bella when she needed it most - helped her come back to herself. But she still wasn't whole.
ReplyDeleteWhen Edward came back, she was so much better - emotionally and mentally. And Jacob threw a fit. I would have hoped he'd be happy for her that she finally was in such a good place for herself.
But, as others have said, he is very young.
Yes, Jacob was a good friend to her. It was just so clear early on that he was in love with Bella, I found it hard to focus on him as a friend.
ReplyDeleteWell, the thing that annoyed me during that time period was that over and over Bella said that she wasn't interested in him like that and she felt really bad but she really didn't love him in that way. And he said, "yeah, that's fine, I understand, etc" but he was lying. As soon as he realized she really DIDN'T want him, he became the Jacob I really dislike
ReplyDeleteim team edward all the way. and it took me a second read of th saga to really see that jacob was actually just a love sick puppy.
ReplyDeletehe seemed abusive but he just really didnt see why he was drawn to bella all the time until the when he realised that it was all because a renesme. (love renesme)
The first time i read the Saga i hated Jacob Ever since new Moon right upto when he Impritned on Renesmee. I've now read the saga 2 or 3 times and i'm on Team Jacob up untill Renesmee is born.
ReplyDeleteI used to be Team Edward all the way. But after reading the Twilight Saga so many times i felt i became to know Bella and Edward personally, and it almost felt rude to 'want' Edward. It would be like wanting your bestfriends man, And ever since that revelation I began to grow fonder and fonder of the charatchter Jacob and how much he helps bella (in New Moon) and much of a great friend he is to her. I used to relly hate Jacob, how he always tried it on with bella, Un till he imprinted on Nessie. I personally, am team Twilight, if there was one ;)
ReplyDeletexx Anon1234